to bee or not to bee that is the question........seriosly

[bee4u]

recently i was approched by the local allotment site rep about putting bees on the allotment next to mine we came to an agreement about keeping them well i said we could give it and a go i understand the benifits of them and all the recent news about them dieing off and all and that they will be benificial to me as well as all the other allotment owners anyway we talked about keeping the hedge at a height of ten ft or taller ialso understand that dencity doesent matter because bees dont have amazing eye sight and general wont try to fly through such things so the density doesent bother me too much and knowing bees fly about 5 meters in the air and only come down if they detect nectar sounds like i wouldnt have a problem only thing that did concern me was the fact that the may decide that my pond is a perfect water sorce for them. anyway i went to the allotment today to see that the hedge had been cut to a bunch off five foot tall leaf les sticks in the grown and that any vegative growth in the allotment is good there is no water sauce and nothing up to stop the bees now my main concerns is that my hedge is so short its non existant compared to everyone ellses 7ft 3 foot wide bushes i have sticks as a defence another thing is im south facing with the allotment to the north of mine im guessing she wants her hives south facing so directly in to my allotment and on the other side i have some higher thicker hedges and a few trees i guess im worried about being traped in a swarm of bees anyway i am very concernd about having them there now ad so i would like to ask you about your advice and how you would feel on the situation i wouldnt mind her keeping her bees but it doesent look likly im looking at 3 hives on average of 50 000 bees so 150 000 bees using my allotment as a flight path with 5 ft tall sticks as protection is it just me or is she actualy crazy

[Jon]

I keep bees on an allotment.
Ask your neighbour to box her colonies in with at least 6' high pallets or chicken wire and this will force them up into the air before they fly over anyone else. She should site them as far away from any other allotment holders as posible, irrespective of where south is.
She should know never to open them up when neighbours are working in their plots nearby.
I would establish that with her from the start. Bees normally just go about their business but can get defensive if the beekeeper is constantly manipulating the colony. Is she a beginner or an experienced beekeeper?
It might be an idea to increase the height of your hedge somewhat. You could ask your neighbour to use willow which will root easily at this time of year. Even if it is just "sticks" as you say the bees will fly over it.
They may well collect water from your pond but are unlikely to disturb you while they are doing this.
If the bees swarm, the air will be full of bees but they are normally very docile in this state. A good beekeeper can take steps to prevent swarming.

[Chris]

I would suggest a little more involvement from the 'authorities'. I think whoever is in charge should give permission to this beekeeper on the understanding that no problems arise. And then it is up to you and fellow allotment holders to see how the situation works out, and it is up to whoever is in charge to be receptive of your comments. Don't condemn the bees with the first hint of a problem, but some kind of management system would be helpful where any problems can be taken on board and hopefully dealt with.

But I think the bottom line should be that if problems continue then the bees should be moved within a reasonable timescale. In this respect this beekeeper should have an alternative site available. He or she has a responsibility to the safety of others, and it would be wise for them to have an alternative site available.

[Adam]

When I kept bees on an allotment I built a wooden frame, 8 foot hight, around all sides of the hives. I figured that bees will fly in all directions so the frame was 4 sided with an open top, hives in the middle, and a dense bee proof mesh stapled to it.

I also had a backup "bolt hole" so that the bees could be moved, at short notice, if problems with temper etc were noticed.

I considered it a moral requirement, that I would never inspect when others were working nearby. I did however manage to undertake regular inspections to ensure swarms were not issued.

I would suggest allotments are more suited to experienced beekeepers, who are more able to judge temper, to get on top of a colony if it starts getting a bit ratty (although rare) when its being inspected and to allow inspections with maximum speed and minimal disturbance to the colony.

Additionally I'd suggest the queens wings should be clipped to ensure she doesn't issue with a swarm.

Hope that helps.

Adam

[Karin]

This is funny because a local allotment has asked if we would like to put a hive on it and we have been worrying about it the other way round too.. will it be vandal proof? will it be safe from beenappers? will allotment holders stand in the flight path peering in and get stung or try to look inside and get stung? is there any way of stopping any of the above.:p

[Jon]

Karin
All of the above.

I have had other allotment holders enter my plot and walk towards me to enquire what I am doing when I am wearing a bee suit and inspecting a colony. Education certainly comes into it.

I have also had some problems with vandalism as this is a general problem on allotments.

You do have to know what you are doing and have as bolthole as Adam mentioned. I had a colony which went queenless last year and became aggressive. I had to move it away for 3 weeks until it was requeened and behaving itself.

This is the back end of my allotment and I have 8 colonies behind the pallets.

http://www.britishbee.org.uk/photoplog/index.php?n=224

Fortunately I have a line of mature trees on one side and the railway fence on another.

http://www.britishbee.org.uk/photoplog/index.php?n=225

[Norm]

.... will it be safe from beenappers?

A kenyan Top Bar Hive is pretty difficult to Steal! :rolleyes:;)

http://www.britishbee.org.uk/forum/image.php?groupid=2&dateline=1231605940

[Jon]

LOL, Norm
You are nothing if not persistant.

[Norm]

Seriously, dont you think a Top Bar Hive is better suited to an allotment situation, taking all the other considerations of placement, screening, mild tempered bees etc. into account as with any other hive, I would like to see anyone pinch one of these. They don't have to look so utilitarian either.

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ebeekeeper23/tbhpics/florida.jpg

The viewing window if placed on the opposite side from the entrance will allow undisturbed viewing of internal goings on. This could 'engage' other allotment holders interest and hence assure better understanding.

[Jon]

It's certainly just as much an option as the nationals I work with.
I think the main issue is getting a high screen around whatever hive is chosen and tinkering with its inhabitants as little as possible.
In spite of what some would have you believe, bees generally prefer to be left alone. (not ignoring swarm coltrol and disease management of course)
Weekly sugar dusting would not be a good idea on an allotment, imho.
Is there any way of doing drone brood culling in a TBH?
Perhaps you could cut a piece of drone foundation to size and attach it to a top bar for later removal when it has been drawn out laid up and sealed.

[Adam]

Seriously, dont you think a Top Bar Hive is better suited to an allotment situation, ....... I would like to see anyone pinch one of these. They don't have to look so utilitarian either.

Categorically not IMHO. If problems arrive, you need to be able to drive up, shove it in a car boot and move it to your backup apiary (on your own). If its too heavy for thieves, its too heavy to be easily portable.

Adam

[Karin]

I liked the pallet fence Jon. It made me think that perhaps even I could make a fence.
What about people spraying with insecticides??? Most people seem to spray broad beans.

I am geting less keen. I suppose I could paint messages on the boxes. DO NOT STAND IN FLIGHT PATH - ANY WORRIES OR QUESTIONS CONTACT BEEKEEPER- BEES STING - DO NOT TOUCH-:D

[Jon]

Karin
A few people use insecticides and other chemicals but the allotments cover 4 acres and bees forage over perhaps 8,000 acres (Pi * 2*2*640) so it is what is going on outside which is of more concern. Last year I had 15 acres of rape across the road and I had no problems. I had one poisoning incident involving just one colony last May and I reckon it was someone spraying a few fruit trees in his back garden. I reckon I lose more bees to the Dublin-Belfast express train which passes about 15 feet away from my apiary. All the more reason to get them up in the air as quickly as possible.

The other advantage of a screen is that out of site is out of mind for a lot of people. I am tempted to keep a colony or two in my garden but I would only do it with a bee house.

If you put up signs drawing attention to the danger of bees someone will probably complain about them being dangerous and you will be asked to remove them.

You will also have to give honey to at least a dozen people in your vecinity.

You need to be confident that your handling technique will not agitate the colony and you will have to resist the urge to be looking under the crown board all of the time.

Jon